My insights on Blade Runner

1. In the Voight Kampf test in the beginning Holden asks Leon to tell him about his mother. Leon`s mother is a fake memory so he "tells about his mother" and shoots Holden.<BR><BR>2. In the Bradury apartments Roy tells Deckard "I thought you were supposed to be good. Arent you the good man?". I think this indicates that Deckard as a replicant was a doctor or something before reprogrammed. Roy also calls Deckard a little man when breaking his fingers. Deckard might not be as strong physically as his replicant counterparts but better than normal human because he made some impossible climbing in the Bradbury apartment.<BR><BR>3. I think when Leon shot Holden they reprogrammed Deckard to believe Holden`s home belonged to him and Holden`s life was his. How else did the police set up Deckards life so perfectly? It fits that they used something that already existed and since Holden was out of the picture nobody used his home anyway.

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE><BR>On 2003-05-03 20:02, Jukka wrote:<BR>1. In the Voight Kampf test in the beginning Holden asks Leon to tell him about his mother. Leon`s mother is a fake memory so he "tells about his mother" and shoots Holden.<BR><BR>2. In the Bradury apartments Roy tells Deckard "I thought you were supposed to be good. Arent you the good man?". I think this indicates that Deckard as a replicant was a doctor or something before reprogrammed. Roy also calls Deckard a little man when breaking his fingers. Deckard might not be as strong physically as his replicant counterparts but better than normal human because he made some impossible climbing in the Bradbury apartment.<BR><BR>3. I think when Leon shot Holden they reprogrammed Deckard to believe Holden`s home belonged to him and Holden`s life was his. How else did the police set up Deckards life so perfectly? It fits that they used something that already existed and since Holden was out of the picture nobody used his home anyway.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End --><BR><BR>OK !This is where I kick into may Manga / Anime mode. This is my offical reply....<BR><BR><BR> "!?"<BR><BR><BR>_________________did I mention, "welcome to the forum" (I think)<BR>I am The CHEESE!<BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SpookyBoy on 2003-05-05 18:42 ]</font>

Thanks. So what do you think about my ideas? Since Blade Runner is mysterious they are quite possible I think.

I've always liked the idea that Deckard is a replicant and that 'his' apartment is really Holden's.<BR><BR>This theory was put forward in one of the many essays contained in the book 'Retrofitting Blade Runner' - if you haven't read this then I would unreservedly recommend that you do. It's a great companion to 'Future Noire'.
[addsig]

It's quite possible that Deckard's apartment is Holden's, I have to look at Deckard's personel photos more closely.
[addsig]

I still prefer to think of Deckard as being human, but in the replicant scenario, Deckard?s apartment actually being Holden?s is an interesting theory. However, Holden seemed like such a clean-cut guy; with his three piece suit and hair sliked back. I imagine he?d be a ?neat freak? and his apartment would be nice and organized. Perhaps they trashed the place before moving Deckard in.<BR><BR>BTW, I always got the impression that Holden was a family man, with a wife and kids. Anyone else here see him like this?<BR><BR><BR>

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE><BR>On 2003-05-06 10:56, endzem wrote:<BR>I still prefer to think of Deckard as being human, but in the replicant scenario, Deckard?s apartment actually being Holden?s is an interesting theory. However, Holden seemed like such a clean-cut guy; with his three piece suit and hair sliked back. I imagine he?d be a ?neat freak? and his apartment would be nice and organized. Perhaps they trashed the place before moving Deckard in.<BR><BR>BTW, I always got the impression that Holden was a family man, with a wife and kids. Anyone else here see him like this?<BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End --><BR>He was dressed for the occasion.<BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jukka on 2003-05-06 16:12 ]</font>

From what I remember of the photos, they are non-specific in subject matter.<BR>I mean they could be anyones family or relatives. There is none of Rick (I am going from memory).<BR><BR>Talking of "transplanting people" the whole put someone in another persons life - smacks of the film Dark City. <BR><BR>Why have reference to Holden from Deckard? Deckard asks about Holden! That indicates to me that they may have worked together at some point. I seriously think that they both know of each other. The logic dosen't pan out with the "make another REP to do Holdens job". <BR>That bit about using the same apartment is too far fetched for me.<BR><BR><BR>_________________<BR>I am The CHEESE!<BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SpookyBoy on 2003-05-06 18:34 ]</font>

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE><BR>On 2003-05-06 18:32, SpookyBoy wrote:<BR>From what I remember of the photos, they are non-specific in subject matter.<BR>I mean they could be anyones family or relatives. There is none of Rick (I am going from memory).<BR><BR>Talking of "transplanting people" the whole put someone in another persons life - smacks of the film Dark City. <BR><BR>Why have reference to Holden from Deckard? Deckard asks about Holden! That indicates to me that they may have worked together at some point. I seriously think that they both know of each other. The logic dosen't pan out with the "make another REP to do Holdens job". <BR>That bit about using the same apartment is too far fetched for me.<BR><BR><BR>_________________<BR>I am The CHEESE!<BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SpookyBoy on 2003-05-06 18:34 ]</font><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End --><BR><BR>Deckard was physically superior to humans and expendaple. Ask yourself why wouldn`t they have seized the opportunity. Quite stupid not to actually.

hmmm, not sure that I agree with your theory Jukka,

my burning question would be....why ?

what would be the motive of dumping deckard into holden's ex apartment. 'sides, deck knew of holden, indeed he recommended him to bryant early on.

the quotes from roy (good man, little man) to deckard I see as being more of a righteous taunt than confirmation deck is a replicant himself. In some ways, I think it goes against the deck as a rep theory, and is a battle between a percieved evilness in the replicant, who is evil per se, and deck, who is supposed to be an empathic human. I think it blurs the line between what it is to be human and what it is to have your life governed and overseen. Casting deck temporarily into the role of cold blooded murderer, (killing women in cold blood) which culminates in a merciful roy sparing him, is a way of emphasising this similarity.....deck as a human shows less empathy for the reps than the reps are able to show him. PKDs central theme, what it is to be human.

one part that has confused me though is when deck is able to tell rachel about her own memories....did tyrell tell deck about the memories he bestowed to rachel ? Is the spider story just a generic childhood memory that deck knew about ? How did deck know ? don't tell me it was 'cause deck is a replicant !! Seems to be a continuity stuff up in my mind, maybe deck was supposed to have read rachels bio....

any ideas ?

stu

I've never thought of the Replicants as 'evil'. They are dangerous because they are unpredictable and they have no empathy towards other living creatures - that is not their fault, it is a flaw in their design, not a product of evil.

Is a tiger evil? No, but it will instinctively attack when threatened and will hunt when it is hungary. If it showed any mercy towards it's prey then it would starve to death.

one part that has confused me though is when deck is able to tell rachel about her own memories....did tyrell tell deck about the memories he bestowed to rachel ? Is the spider story just a generic childhood memory that deck knew about ? How did deck know ? don't tell me it was 'cause deck is a replicant !! Seems to be a continuity stuff up in my mind, maybe deck was supposed to have read rachels bio....

any ideas ?

yea before Deck went to tyrell's he read rachels file i suppose which would have included one or two of the implanted memory's and the reason for denying it later i suppose is because he was begining to or had already fallen in love with her and i guess didn't want to tell her how little life she had left thats my idea [/quote]

Tyrell has showed him Rachael's memories on the TV screen.

No really, i think that a reference on this appears in one of the pre-final scripts, but I can be wrong.

Also, the BR comic also sugests this. The comic was based on the script and uses some lines from the script which haven't appear in the movie.

are replicants evil......hmmmm, now there's a question......



I think watching leon waste holden when asked about his mother set the scene on how...uhm...pleasant the reps are....

roy killing tryrell, his father, his god.....hmmm, not exactly on the good side of the good/evil ledger

leon pulverising deck in the street fight....hitting him for the sake of it.

I take your point that they are programmed in an animal like way, but evil is a human construct, being able to inflict pain/misery for the sake of it, or taking pleasure in the pain of others.....like small boys with flies......

replicants are more human than human in this regard, They are not just programmed robots, but sentient beings with memories, (obviously disturbing in the case of the spider eating her offspring), who are capable and do commit acts of evil. In exactly the same way that humans are evil.

the voight-kampf test is quite relevant in this regard, determining if a "good" or empathic response is present in a replicant. Is anyone else impressed by the acting of the reps which conveys brilliantly the two year old mindsets and undeveloped emotional responses of the reps....awesome...but I digress.....the reps are capable of an empathic response (roy's soliloquy) just as they are capable of premeditated evil....

seems the god of biomechanics has emulated the human god in another area, with life he has created evil

thanks also for the hints on the rachel's memory question....not fully resoloved, but I don't think there was meant to be anything deeply hidden within what seems to be a slight slip-up.....

thanks for the thought provoking ideas

stu

Are children evil?

Kids torture animals all the time - firing air rifle pellets at birds, catapulting stones at cats, 'frying' insects with magnifying glasses and worse. Are these kids evil or is it that they don't know right from wrong? They don't appreciate the suffering that they are causing.

I would say that Roy killing Tyrell was a 'spur of the moment' act - he didn't get his own way and threw a tantrum. This is why Relpicants are dangerous - they cannot deal with heightened emotions.

Leon's interview - it was a simple choice, kill or be killed. Leon saw that the Holden had become suspicious during the VK test. Leon knew that the game was up and shot Holden before Holden shot him.

Later, Leon had just seen Deckard 'murder' one of his 'family' - he shot Zhora (unarmed) in the back, twice. He knows that given the chance, Deckard will also shoot him. He cannot understand how someone can do that. He's gonna make Deckard understand what it feels like to be the 'hunted'.

I think the Replicants in the film do show empathy towards each other - they are concerned for each other's well being. Their imminent demise does seem to over-ride all other impulses, though. They don't have much time - they need to get to Tyrell before it's too late. They can't let anyone stand in their way. Those that do are dealt with swiftly.